Are women more judgemental of other women?
In my business I get a lot of feedback on how I am doing:-)
With most courses I teach every attendee fills out an evaluation. They get sent to the course administrator to be looked at and filed away. Trainers do take a look at them usually as well. I like to know what topics the person liked most and least on the course that way I can keep working on things that appear on the dislike list a lot.
- Image by interplast via Flickr
If there is a complaint, I always ask for a copy of all evaluations for the course. Some complaints come in the form of the course itself, the topics were not appropriate for the person (too high a level or not useful for them), this is usually up to the company booking the course rather then the trainer, but we look at it and try and make improvements to booking.
There are, rarely attacks on the trainer personally. They have all been written by women. The same is true for all trainers I have talked with. Sometimes they seem like a valid complaint, the trainer did not explain anything properly. Fine we can work with a valid complaint, and there have been times that all trainers, myself included have had a bad day (even though we are not allowed to ).
If there is a complaint that is not clear we (the training company or the HR people of the attendee) will ask for clarification, as you can’t deal with an issue if you don’t have both sides of the story. This is when it usually emerges that the person did not like the trainer as a person, not their training skill.
Generally men can put aside whether they like a person or not and have a business relationship with them. An evaluation from a man tends to be more fact based. Generally women put their emotion into everything. When filling out an evaluation they will mark based on how they felt about the trainer as a person. Someone they like will get a higher score then someone they don’t like.
It is too numerous the number of stories from trainer that out of a whole group 1 person complained when everyone else gave glowing evaluations. If any of you who read this are the type to colour your world and your evaluation with your emotion I ask you to try not to.
Take a step back and look at things without emotion. If you think the trainer is the most horrible person in the world, take a mental step back:
- Do they know their subject
- Did they explain topics so that people could understand
Conversely the same if true for when you like the person. Just because you like someone does not mean they are perfect. Evaluations are to help us change courses for the better, if a trainer has explained the topic and had everyone practice it, they asked if anyone had any questions and no one has said anything, there is not much we can do.
Most people realise that not all women are like this (I get this kind of complaint once or twice every couple of years) but those who are like that stick out like a sore thumb and give the rest of us a bad reputation. The few are why we have to work harder to get respect in the business world.
Isn’t it time they tried it our way?
30 Responses to Are women more judgemental of other women?
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There is simply too much potential hassle for a man to criticize/comment/be subjective when providing feedback on the course delivery from a female trainer. Female attendees do not face the same perceived risks, so are freer with their comments. Men will play safe and commit no more than factual, banal comments, in this day and age, it’s easier! No man is going to risk anything by commenting on how they felt about a female trainer personally.
The same phenomenon seems to happen with male trainers too, Nick, in my experience.
Although oddly, we find, the further up the hierarchy in an organisation, the more the men seem to give an emotional response. Very senior male managers can be quite personal about the trainer (male or female). I haven’t analysed this (never thought about it until reading this blog!) but now that I do think about it, that’s my impression of our experience.
Twitter: evenbreak
If you talked to male trainers they would say the same as I have written, probably not to you but to another colleague. One male trainer who I talked with last week about writing this said exactly the same sentiment, men tend not to be emotional on evaluations, it is almost always a woman who complains and it is usually (not always) because they didn’t like the trainer as a person. Nothing to do with their training skill.
I also work with extremely good trainers, so can’t say about the trainers out there who train from books, can’t answer questions outside of the course material, or those who train from a script.
There is simply too much potential hassle for a man to criticize/comment/be subjective when providing feedback on the course delivery from a female trainer. Female attendees do not face the same perceived risks, so are freer with their comments. Men will play safe and commit no more than factual, banal comments, in this day and age, it’s easier! No man is going to risk anything by commenting on how they felt about a female trainer personally.
The same phenomenon seems to happen with male trainers too, Nick, in my experience.
Although oddly, we find, the further up the hierarchy in an organisation, the more the men seem to give an emotional response. Very senior male managers can be quite personal about the trainer (male or female). I haven’t analysed this (never thought about it until reading this blog!) but now that I do think about it, that’s my impression of our experience.
Twitter: evenbreak
If you talked to male trainers they would say the same as I have written, probably not to you but to another colleague. One male trainer who I talked with last week about writing this said exactly the same sentiment, men tend not to be emotional on evaluations, it is almost always a woman who complains and it is usually (not always) because they didn’t like the trainer as a person. Nothing to do with their training skill.
I also work with extremely good trainers, so can’t say about the trainers out there who train from books, can’t answer questions outside of the course material, or those who train from a script.
Devising an objective feedback sheet is vital as it leaves less option for the emotion to come in.
Yes, absolutely – asking for scores on specific questions is more objective and also easier to analyse and do something with the results. But some qualitative feedback can sometimes explain the quantitative stuff.
Twitter: evenbreak
does not matter about the questions, if you ask how well the trainer explained a topic, the person who does not like the trainer as a person will put a low score down.
As someone who has worked on all aspects of training courses for over 10 years, the only way to deal with it is to have a procedure in place where you question the person. So if the person put down that the trainer did not know their topic, they could be asked what specific topics did the trainer have trouble with. Were there any questions the trainer could not answer. This alone would tell you if the person was giving an emotional or a logical evaluation.
Devising an objective feedback sheet is vital as it leaves less option for the emotion to come in.
Yes, absolutely – asking for scores on specific questions is more objective and also easier to analyse and do something with the results. But some qualitative feedback can sometimes explain the quantitative stuff.
Twitter: evenbreak
does not matter about the questions, if you ask how well the trainer explained a topic, the person who does not like the trainer as a person will put a low score down.
As someone who has worked on all aspects of training courses for over 10 years, the only way to deal with it is to have a procedure in place where you question the person. So if the person put down that the trainer did not know their topic, they could be asked what specific topics did the trainer have trouble with. Were there any questions the trainer could not answer. This alone would tell you if the person was giving an emotional or a logical evaluation.
Hi I think that women through life’s training tend to be more receptive etc, We are to some extent born to listen;- to our children – nurture and so on, So perhaps we listen that much more intently and ‘judge & dissect’ things more thoroughly than our male counterparts?. We also hear what is not being said, as we take time to see past the words and in to things more thoroughly?
I think that apply’s to listening and judging both sex’s conversation/actions, Can this make us seem more judgmental towards other women? We would probably only voice our opinions to other women because we know they listen,
Do men listen differently in business? I don’t know, but I know that when I speak as a woman in business often surrounded by men I have to make it concise & clear to the point, to be taken seriously, but I find that it is always a women that will ask ‘the question’ that men do not like to ask ie what, how why when; Men seem not to like to let anyone else now that they do not understand something. Its only when things are being explained that you can see that the men in the room are very interested in the answer, perhaps they are at times glad to have the woman there to ask that embarrassing question.
I have found that to be taken seriously I need to listen lots say little but when you dos speak make it count.
On the face of it women in business tend to be / have to be more critical of them self’s – go that extra mile to achieve, therefore making them more critical ??
You are so right about listening lots. But it is the value of what you say that also counts. I have always been in male dominated area’s and do not have a problem with my colleagues taking me seriously.
I disagree about women hearing what is not being said. There are several learning methodologies, my favourite has 8 learning styles. One of those learning styles is taking the underlying meaning. The thing I like about the methodology is, it realises that we have many styles, some stronger then others. SOME people can take the underlying meaning but I find that it is equal between men and women.
Hi I think that women through life’s training tend to be more receptive etc, We are to some extent born to listen;- to our children – nurture and so on, So perhaps we listen that much more intently and ‘judge & dissect’ things more thoroughly than our male counterparts?. We also hear what is not being said, as we take time to see past the words and in to things more thoroughly?
I think that apply’s to listening and judging both sex’s conversation/actions, Can this make us seem more judgmental towards other women? We would probably only voice our opinions to other women because we know they listen,
Do men listen differently in business? I don’t know, but I know that when I speak as a woman in business often surrounded by men I have to make it concise & clear to the point, to be taken seriously, but I find that it is always a women that will ask ‘the question’ that men do not like to ask ie what, how why when; Men seem not to like to let anyone else now that they do not understand something. Its only when things are being explained that you can see that the men in the room are very interested in the answer, perhaps they are at times glad to have the woman there to ask that embarrassing question.
I have found that to be taken seriously I need to listen lots say little but when you dos speak make it count.
On the face of it women in business tend to be / have to be more critical of them self’s – go that extra mile to achieve, therefore making them more critical ??
You are so right about listening lots. But it is the value of what you say that also counts. I have always been in male dominated area’s and do not have a problem with my colleagues taking me seriously.
I disagree about women hearing what is not being said. There are several learning methodologies, my favourite has 8 learning styles. One of those learning styles is taking the underlying meaning. The thing I like about the methodology is, it realises that we have many styles, some stronger then others. SOME people can take the underlying meaning but I find that it is equal between men and women.
making them more critical of others ( that should say)
making them more critical of others ( that should say)
When I was working in a large, mainly male IT department I certainly heard the way male department members reacted to female bosses, and it wasn’t pretty, it certainly wasn’t factual or objective.
I imagine most of them would find more objective and factual ways to express their views, if for any reason they had to fill in an appraisal form, though.
I know of occasions where people were refused courses they wanted to do, and sent on ones they deemed unimportant and unnecessary. I expect that would also impact their feedback.
I reckon you’re doing extremely well if you only get such a tiny number of unreasonable ones, Katherine – given the very high percentage of unreasonable people in the general population
I have only once ever commented in feedback about a trainer (male) in a personal sense in that I thought his overall attitude was somewhat patronising, but given that our group was diverse to put it mildly (speed awareness workshop instead of speeding fine/points!) I appreciated that he couldn’t please everyone and some would have found his attitude fatherly and helpful rather than patronising.
However I felt that other participants might perceive his attitude as being a bit punitive and high-handed, which could impact adversely on their acceptance of the subject matter.
I didn’t simply say I thought the guy was a pompous old goat; although that was true, to say so without qualification would not have been constructive.
So perhaps there are mitigating circumstances when personal comments are made in feedback – provided that the personal criticism is directly linked to its effect on the business in hand.
Twitter: SuzeStMWrites
I think it is great that you can specify and identify what exactly you found “bad” about the trainer.
I have known male trainers whose style was patronising ass. One changed his style when he got remarried (to another trainer). that style can work in certain environments, and work for some people but not all.
I don’t think you were being emotional by stating this on your eval, you would be emotional by saying the entire course was rubbish because of it. Not everyone can like the trainer as a person, but what I would like is for everyone to use the evaluation to look at the course topics and how they were trained. If the trainer acted or did something that distracted from training then please note that separately on the eval.
Hope that makes sense
Thanks Anne. I think there are a lot of issues generally about women in the work place. I think I am lucky that I have the respect of colleagues based on knowledge and experience.
I too have seen men be derogative towards a female boss but in most cases (not all) the women didn’t have the knowledge that the men though they should have, say an Arts degree with maybe word processing experience and is in charge of programmers but does not understand programming or programmers as people.
In Canada there is a problem with quota’s. I know a military communications engineer who retired from reg force and got a job with a civilian firm because she met the female quota. The men were shocked that she could actually do her job. It might be good to look at whether the men have cause to complain.
I guess I am lucky that I get one or two complaints at most a year, but I do work hard in making training about the learner. Hope that is what does it.
When I was working in a large, mainly male IT department I certainly heard the way male department members reacted to female bosses, and it wasn’t pretty, it certainly wasn’t factual or objective.
I imagine most of them would find more objective and factual ways to express their views, if for any reason they had to fill in an appraisal form, though.
I know of occasions where people were refused courses they wanted to do, and sent on ones they deemed unimportant and unnecessary. I expect that would also impact their feedback.
I reckon you’re doing extremely well if you only get such a tiny number of unreasonable ones, Katherine – given the very high percentage of unreasonable people in the general population
I have only once ever commented in feedback about a trainer (male) in a personal sense in that I thought his overall attitude was somewhat patronising, but given that our group was diverse to put it mildly (speed awareness workshop instead of speeding fine/points!) I appreciated that he couldn’t please everyone and some would have found his attitude fatherly and helpful rather than patronising.
However I felt that other participants might perceive his attitude as being a bit punitive and high-handed, which could impact adversely on their acceptance of the subject matter.
I didn’t simply say I thought the guy was a pompous old goat; although that was true, to say so without qualification would not have been constructive.
So perhaps there are mitigating circumstances when personal comments are made in feedback – provided that the personal criticism is directly linked to its effect on the business in hand.
Twitter: SuzeStMWrites
I think it is great that you can specify and identify what exactly you found “bad” about the trainer.
I have known male trainers whose style was patronising ass. One changed his style when he got remarried (to another trainer). that style can work in certain environments, and work for some people but not all.
I don’t think you were being emotional by stating this on your eval, you would be emotional by saying the entire course was rubbish because of it. Not everyone can like the trainer as a person, but what I would like is for everyone to use the evaluation to look at the course topics and how they were trained. If the trainer acted or did something that distracted from training then please note that separately on the eval.
Hope that makes sense
Thanks Anne. I think there are a lot of issues generally about women in the work place. I think I am lucky that I have the respect of colleagues based on knowledge and experience.
I too have seen men be derogative towards a female boss but in most cases (not all) the women didn’t have the knowledge that the men though they should have, say an Arts degree with maybe word processing experience and is in charge of programmers but does not understand programming or programmers as people.
In Canada there is a problem with quota’s. I know a military communications engineer who retired from reg force and got a job with a civilian firm because she met the female quota. The men were shocked that she could actually do her job. It might be good to look at whether the men have cause to complain.
I guess I am lucky that I get one or two complaints at most a year, but I do work hard in making training about the learner. Hope that is what does it.
One of the things I like most about Birds on the Blog is the very high quality interaction you get from the commenters, once an article has got you thinking.
Thank you Morag, we aim to make you think
One of the things I like most about Birds on the Blog is the very high quality interaction you get from the commenters, once an article has got you thinking.
Thank you Morag, we aim to make you think